THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Theaters in San Antonio
INTERVIEW WITH: Kenny Parnell [Tape 1 of 2]
DATE: 18 July 2000
PLACE: ITC
INTERVIEWER: Laurie Gudzikowski
TAPE I, SIDE 1
G: This is Laurie Gudzikowski and I’m at the Institute of Texan Cultures, and I’m doing an interview with Kenny Parnell. We will be talking about his work in theaters in San Antonio, and his family’s involvement in theaters in San Antonio. Okay, Kenny, would you...for the record would you state your name and would you tell me where and when you were born?
P: Well, yeah. I’m Kenny Parnell or Kenneth B. Parnell, San Antonio, Texas, December 2, 1936.
G: Okay. Kenny, your family has been involved in working in theaters over several generations. Can you tell me about your dad? First would you tell me his name and where and when your dad was born, if you know that?
P: Oh, yeah. His name was Joseph Benjamin Parnell. He was born in Marlin, April 3, 1915.
G: Marlin, Texas?
P: Yes, Marlin, Texas, uh-huh.
G: Now your dad worked in theaters. Can you tell me how he got into this line of work?Kenny Parnell 2
P: He was a...in cleaning – he was a tailor. And he worked across the street on New Braunfels from the Star Theater right outside of Fort Sam. And Richard become... Richard Kominski was a manager there, and he got real good friends with Richard and that was how he met everybody and that’s where he started, probably in ’46 – 1946.
G: And he started doing what?
P: First he started working in the projection booth and then he started on stage shortly after that.
G: His work as a tailor. What happened to that at the time? Tell me.
P: He still did it up until the end; he’d make his own suits and stuff. But he liked the theater better and it was better money, better hours.
G: Okay, now, he started...tell me again what dates and the year that he started.
P: Probably sometime in 1946. He started at the Star Theater, and then from then on I don’t know exactly where he was working, but all of the theaters in town.
G: And he worked in the projection booth?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: So the Star was entirely a movie theater or...
P: Yes. Uh-huh. Entirely a movie theater.
G: Now, how do you get...when you work in the projection, how do you learn to do that? Is this an apprentice kind of thing? How does one learn this?Kenny Parnell 3
P: It was apprentice at one time, but it’s just people come in and they learn. Their fathers show them or their uncles or their good friends show them how. And then if you’re good enough you go on from there. And that’s how he got started. A friend showed him. He was not an apprentice.
G: And so his friend showed him and then he was interested in it and so when a job came open, that’s how he got started.
P: Uh-huh. And then he got regular, in all of the small theaters, not the big ones.
G: And the small theaters would have been – besides the Star – what others may they have been?
P: Oh, the Harlandale and the Highland and the Zaragosa and the Nacional and the Sunset.
G: There were lots of theaters in San Antonio at that...
P: Oh, yes, ma’am.
G: At that time in the ‘40’s, they were kind of neighborhood...
P: Yes, most of them were.
G: kind of...?
P: Neighborhood, yes.
G: Do you have any idea how many theaters there might have been in San Antonio in the ‘40s?
P: No. There were so many; I’m sure twenty-five or more.
G: And there were a number of drive-in theaters, too? Or Kenny Parnell 4
G: did the drive-ins come later?
P: I think there was only...the drive-ins started in probably ’45 and there was only one. And then we went to two and then to four.
G: And what was the name of the one?
P: The first one was the Fredericksburg Road, out on Fredericksburg Road.
G: And then?
P: The Trail Drive-In was next and then the Mission and the Alamo were next. And then, I don’t know. We ended up with twenty-three drive-ins in this town.
G: And the twenty-three drive-ins were at what time?
P: I would say in the ‘60s and ‘70s. And then they started dwindling down.
G: Now, your dad started in the ‘40s in the Star Theater and he started kind of informally now, I guess. I bet he started watching his friends and...
P: Oh, sure, that’s the way you start.
G: And then he joined a union; he joined an organization. How was this...how was this projectionist business organized?
P: He joined the union in 1948.
G: And the union was?
P: The IATSE - the International Alliance of Theatrical...so that’s...
G: And people in that union, are they solely Kenny Parnell 5
G: projectionists or are there other people who work in theaters who are part of that?
P: They are twin sisters. We have had two locals in town, the Projectionist was 407, the number, and the Stagehands was 76.
G: And your dad belonged to?
P: Both of them. Yes.
G: Both of them. So he went from being a projectionist to being...having a more wider interests in theaters?
P: Yeah, into the stage. And once you get on stage you don’t want to go back to being projectionist. You want to stay on the stage.
G: Okay. Now, tell me, you said that the pay was better and the hours were better. Can you tell me a little bit about that part of his work?
P: Well, like in the projection booth it was six hours. You never worked over six hours a day. And it’s about a four and a third day a week is how you work those. And those are really nice hours. Those were excellent hours.
G: They were evening hours? I’m guessing.
P: Uh, well, it all depends on the theaters. The big theaters you would work two weeks and off a week; one morning, one night, one morning, one night. You do that for fourteen days and then you’d have seven off.
G: Those are pretty good hours.
P: And, yeah, I did that for years myself, yeah.Kenny Parnell 6
G: Now, in the 1940s, were the theaters air-conditioned at that time?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: So it was pretty good working conditions or were the projectionist’s booths also air-conditioned or were they...?
P: No, they usually weren’t.
G: Ah.
P: But they had their fans and stuff. And it was warm and it was a very small room then.
G: I can remember when I was a child, theaters were the only buildings that were air-conditioned. Was that the same here in San Antonio?
P: Oh, yes, uh-huh.
G: ...first buildings that were air-conditioned.
P: Uh-huh.
G: Now your dad started in the ‘40s and he worked in the theaters right up until...?
P: I think he actually retired as a projectionist in 1984.
G: Okay. But he continued on with his work as a stagehand at least...?
P: Until 1999, yeah, the year he died.
G: Uh-huh. Now tell me about being a stagehand. I think I have an idea of what a projectionist does, but what does a stagehand do?
P: A stagehand does everything in a theater, wall-to-wall. Everything was done by stagehands. Not just on stage, but Kenny Parnell 7
G: anywhere, seats and all were included in the stage-hand’s, in the early years. A stagehand would recover seats, re-lamp the theater, no matter where it was.
G: When you say re-lamp the theater, you mean?
P: The light bulbs, when they would go out they would...
The stars in the Majestic, they would change those.
G: Okay. When you say they did everything wall-to-wall, what about the marquee where there are lights and letters and...?
P: Yes, ma’am. The early stagehands did that, yes, they certainly did. Then later on, naturally, it went to the ushers and so forth. But originally the stagehands did it all.
G: Now when your dad first started in the theater, what kind of a staff did a theater have? How many people were projectionists and ushers and candy sellers and ticket sellers? How many people might have been involved in the work of running a theater?
P: Usually I would go with the projectionists – the projectionists had three per theater.
G: Three projectionists.
P: Three projectionists per theater.
G: And at each shift one would be working or more than one?
P: No, just one.
G: One.Kenny Parnell 8
P: Uh-huh. The only time we had two was when we run seventy millimeter for awhile. But one would – two would always be off – one would work in the morning, one in the afternoon and the other one would be off. It switched around where it would – it’s nice that way – you had... could take a week off at a time.
G: So there were three projectionists. What other kinds of staff? I remember ushers.
P: Well, there was the manager and the assistant manager and then a crew of ushers, which I couldn’t tell you how many. And I think the Majestic maybe their crew was around twenty ushers or more. Floyd will let you know.
G: Now the...there were also people who sold tickets? Or was that the manager?
P: Yes, uh-huh. No, no, it was ticket girls and candy girls and then they had the day porters and the night porters.
G: What did a porter do?
P: Just clean up the place and polish...they would even... we had a woman that would stay in the women’s restroom, and a man that would stay in the man’s restroom.
G: So a staff of a theater was quite extensive?
P: Yes, it was.
G: There might have been, oh, clearly, twenty or more people working in the theater?
P: In the olden days the bigger theaters, yes, ma’am. Kenny Parnell 9
G: Okay. That’s really interesting because that’s changed.
P: Oh, yes, it has. Now you go down...you go in there and maybe there’s three people to a theater at one time. Where it used to be lots and lots.
G: Uh-huh. Now, audiences. The Star Theater was, you said, right by Fort Sam.
P: On New Braunfels, yes.
G: Was the audience basically military people? Or it was it neighborhood?
P: Yes, I think so. I think that was mostly the military people. I’m...you’re getting back to where I don’t remember too much about that. But it might have been some neighborhoods, but I think it was a lot military, even though they had the theaters on base. But they would come out.
G: In 1946, theaters, like other public buildings, had accommodations in San Antonio that were segregated?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: So the Star Theater was a white theater?
P: No.
G: ...theater because of its proximity to the base? What about the Star? Do you know?
P: I don’t remember. I don’t remember. I know that up until – even in the ‘50s we had our...there was only one drive-in that they could go to, the colored people, and thatKenny Parnell 10
P: was the Rigsby Drive-In. And it was roped off – they couldn’t go to any other drive-in.
G: There was a section of the Rigsby Drive-In?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: Reserved for black patrons?
P: Uh-huh. In the Empire, the Texas, the State and the Majestic had what they called the colored balcony.
G: Were there some theaters that were in black neighborhoods that were basically all black?
P: Just one.
G: Just one. And that was? Do you remember?
P: It’s right here. I’ll remember the name of it in a minute. I wasn’t expecting to even talk about that because the union didn’t have that.
G: That was not union. That was run entirely by people from the black community?
P: Yes, ma’am, it was. And I’ll think on that, I’ll think of the name of it. The name of it is still on it. It’s over there.
G: If you think of it.
P: It’s right here on Commerce Street.
G: I know that there was a group of Mexican theaters here in town that had Mexican stage shows and showed Spanish language movies. Is that correct?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: Do you know anything about those - how many there were. Kenny Parnell 11
P: The Nacional did and the Alameda did – to do both stage and theater. The Guadalupe was mostly the film. The Zaragosa was mostly film. I think the only two that did stage shows was the Nacional and the Alameda – that I can remember.
G: And were these run by union...were these run by union people or...?
P: Yes, ma’am, they were.
G: And were the people who worked in those theaters basically from Mexican heritage, or were they just anybody who worked in the union?
P: No, anybody who worked in the union, yes.
G: Were those theaters owned by Mexican families, or were they...did they belong to larger chains and just cater to that particular thing?
P: No, actually they were...Lucchese owned the Mexican theaters here in town.
G: So they were just owned by your large chains and catered to that particular section of the population?
P: No, I think Lucchese only owned theaters here in town.
G: Okay. But he had a chain of them here?
P: I think he had about five, yes. Uh-huh.
G: But he didn’t specialize in that particular audience or ...?
P: Well, yes, that he did.
G: Specialized in...?Kenny Parnell 12
P: Uh-huh.
G: Now your dad got into being a stagehand, and he said once you get on stage you don’t want to go back to the projection booth. Can you tell me what’s behind that statement?
P: Well, it’s really neat working on stage. It’s a whole new world. I mean no one ever sees you; you’re behind the scenes, but it’s an entirely different – working on a stage rather than in a booth. In a booth you’re by yourself. You’re by yourself for six hours; you never see anybody unless you look out the window, and all you do is run the machine. But that is an art in itself. But it’s more enjoyable to be involved with getting something done and that is on stage. You get it done. And you just don’t keep making change-overs; you get the work done.
G: Now when you’re working on stage...now when your dad was starting, there were still a number of theaters that had stage shows on a regular basis?
P: I think he mostly worked, like, at the auditorium and the performing theaters. And when they made movies he was around. But...and at each of the main theaters downtown we had a stagehand that was on there regularly, and he was one of those. He got a regular job as stagehand.
G: At what?
P: Well, his first regular job was at the Aztec Theater. And then later on he moved to the Majestic Theater. Kenny Parnell 13
G: Now San Antonio has had some of the really beautiful theaters: the Majestic, the Aztec, the Texas.
P: Uh-huh.
G: Can you talk a little bit about those theaters? What they looked like before they...I think they were all premium theaters, where they had special first-run movie shows and better class of stage shows. Am I talking...is this correct?
P: Uh, they weren’t too many stage shows, but every now and then they would bring a stage show in between movies at the Majestic and the Aztec. And sometimes when we had the premiers and the openings the stars would show up with that. But the Majestic didn’t actually start doing stage until the movies moved out.
G: Well, tell me a little bit about what the Majestic and the Texas and the Aztec...what they looked like, because, well, the Majestic is there, restored, but the Texas is gone.
P: Well, yeah, all of the Texas is gone completely except the box office. And they were all really beautiful and I mean they were great. Earl Abel, here in town, do you remember Earl Abel’s? He played the...every Sunday he would play the organ at the Texas Theater. And they had that. The Texas was really a nice theater too. It had a colored balcony too.
G: What was the Texas Theater – what made it special? I Kenny Parnell 14
G: know the façade is kind of a Alamo-like.
P: I don’t know, it’s a...
G: What was the décor like inside?
P: It was different completely than the Majestic or the Aztec. It was...I don’t really remember the stuff on the walls – I don’t think there was much on the walls or stuff like there was in the Aztec and the Majestic.
G: It was kind of a Western in theme?
P: It might have been, some. I’m not sure. I really don’t...like the Aztec had all the idols and the sacrifice table and that. And the Majestic had a little bit of everything - the birds and the sky – which it still has. But I don’t remember a whole lot about the Texas. The Texas didn’t have a sky, with clouds, like the Majestic and the Aztec. They had clouds that would constantly go across.
G: Yeah, I was going to say, I remember when I was a kid one of the theaters had clouds that moved across the sky. Was that a projection?
P: Well, it was the stagehands, all they did. It was like our Christmas tree lights now that are on wheels.
G: Uh-huh.
P: It would just slowly...it was a two-RPM motor that would slowly move and shine the light on the sky.
G: And so this was something that the stagehands took care of...
P: Yes. Uh-huh.Kenny Parnell 15
G: ...was that cloud effect.
P: Yes. Uh-huh. And you’d just turn it on in the morning and turn it off at night.
G: I also remember some of the theaters, when they got dark, it looked like the sunset. It wasn’t just going from light to dark, it was kind of like sunset. Did the theaters here do that?
P: Yes, we had dimmers on there. And the way that worked, when the projectionist was starting the show he would buzz down to the stagehand and the stagehand would then open the curtain at the signal and then he would slowly dim the lights down.
G: There was another thing I would like to say, was the curtain... I remember the curtain used to open and there was, I guess, lots of curtains. There was a big curtain and then there was a...
P: The main curtain.
G: ...curtain that would open. Can you talk a little about curtains?
P: Well, the stagehands, like at the Texas and the Majestic and the Aztec, this is where they would work. At the beginning of the show the projectionist would start the show and buzz the stagehand and he would open the curtain and dim the lights – just at those three – those three that I can remember. And then when the show was over the projectionist would buzz the stagehand and he would close Kenny Parnell 16
P: the curtain and bring up the lights.
G: Now when you say buzz the stagehand, tell me what that does.
P: Well, by each machine, by each projection you had a button and a bell. You would warn...you’d call him with two buzzes and he’d ring back with two buzzes. That means he’s there. And then the next buzz would be to close it, and he’d buzz you back and close it. So all you...you didn’t talk; you just pressed the buzzer.
G: This was your communication code?
P: Uh-huh.
G: Your dad was very involved with fiesta and with the coronation, or the ceremonies during fiesta. Now when...how did he get started with that particular part of his career?
P: He...his first coronation was in 1948.
G: And what did he do at the coronation?
P: He was just a normal stagehand. You do any and everything. He was an electrician for a while and then he was the head-flyman for a while and then when George [Secort?] was head of it for all those years. And then when George passed on, well, George retired in...
G: George was a...
P: George...[Secort?]
G: He was a member of your...?
P: Stagehand union. George retired, I think, in ’78 and then J.B. took over in ’78 until ’99.Kenny Parnell 17
G: Now you said that he was the flyman. What’s a flyman?
P: You work up high and all of the scenery - you fly your scenery in and out.
G: That means you...
P: It’s tied onto pipes or connected onto pipes, and when you change scenery you just pull it up, with the front curtain closed.
G: When you say you work up high, do you mean physically? Do you work on a platform or...?
P: Well, it’s called a flyfloor and it’s forty-five feet up in the air.
G: And this is behind the stage?
P: Yes, ma’am, it is on stage. And then there’s another higher than that. It’s ninety feet and it’s called the gridiron. And you have to go up there and work too.
G: So that’s how he started: he started as a stagehand then moved to electrician, flyman...
P: Electrician, then flyman.
G: And then after Mr. [Secort(?)]...
P: ...[inaudible].
G: Retired, then your dad...?
P: He took over as running it.
G: And did he have a job title for this?
P: Well, I guess, the head carpenter of the...I’d guess you’d call it. Yeah, the head carpenter would be all right or the stage manager – people call it different things. Kenny Parnell 18
G: And basically what was his job at that time?
P: Just to see that all went well. Everything. He was in charge of everything.
G: So his job was to make sure that the lights were right, that the scenery was right and...
P: Yes, ma’am, everything went right.
G: Everything worked right together.
P: Yes, uh-huh.
G: How many people were involved in...[inaudible].
P: Probably our local stagehands – around thirty; we’d bring in thirty a year. The Order of the Alamo hires out a man in Dallas, and they design the set. And then another man in Dallas builds the set. And then they ship it down here and we re-build it.
G: Now is the set going to be the same every year or...?
P: No, it’s always different.
G: ...[inaudible].
P: It’s always different, never alike. It’s their theme, whatever theme they come up with.
G: You said that you re-built it here. What is involved in that?
P: Well, they build it and put it together and then they tear it apart and ship it down here by trucks. And then we get it all back out and figure out where it goes. We have our plans, and then we put it right back together. And that usually takes about two days to build it.Kenny Parnell 19
G: What is it made out of? Is it made out of wood? Is it made out of canvas stretched on a stretcher - hanging...
P: Well, that is it. It’s made out of wood. It’s made out of canvas. It’s made out of platforms. It’s made out of a lot of different stuff. And we hang some, we stack some and we stand some. It’s a...they can come as high as forty feet tall, on canvas stretched over lumber. And we stand that up and we also hang that, too. And it can come in big canvas backdrops. Every one has at least two backdrops, and we just hang that on pipes and raise it up.
G: Now during the show, is there scenery that’s moved around?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: Or is it static?
P: At the beginning on the coronation, yeah, you only move maybe twice. The rest of the stuff it’s all...we stack up platforms on stairs. And it pretty much stays after we get started.
G: What happens to it afterwards?
P: Well, it takes one day to tear it down and most of the stuff goes to the Chrysanthemum Ball, and some go to the other balls around town. And then they have a garden party that a lot of it goes to. And we don’t keep hardly any of it, mostly. We do keep the platforms and the thrones that they sit on, from year to year. But they’re painted a different color every year. Kenny Parnell 20
G: So it’s used for various things and then does it gets salvaged?
P: Well, yeah. We take the hardware off and whoever wants it can have it.
G: Okay. Tell me a little bit about yourself, and how you got started in the theater business.
P: Oh, well, when J.B. was working...my dad, when he was working, the Zaragosa Theater, I think, I was fourteen years old, and he was working days and nights and he was working at Handy Andy [grocery]. And I would go up; I started at the Zaragosa Theater when I was fourteen - not for pay but to learn how. While he was asleep, I would run the show. And then he moved on up to the Nacional, and I would do the same at the Nacional. In those theaters you’d go, not through the theater to get into them, you’d go in the building and up a ladder through a trapdoor to get to the projection booth. That way nobody could catch you cheating like that; you’re not supposed to be a projectionist till you’re twenty-one and I was fourteen.
G: Now was this something that you wanted to do? That you ...[inaudible]?
P: Sure.
G: Or was it something like. Son, I need your help...?
P: No, I...probably both. And then that was into the booth, and then I liked it, so I went ahead. But then he come got me out of school one day for the coronation in 1953Kenny Parnell 21
P: and he said...
G: And how old were you at the time?
P: Well, I was probably sixteen or seventeen. And he said, “Would you like to come work today on stage?” Well, yeah - anything to get out of school, right? And so I’ve been working the coronation every year since then, I liked it so much. And I’ve been there since probably 1953.
G: Now, what were your first paying jobs in the theater? Did you start kind of informally at the age of fourteen?
P: Well, it’d probably on the coronation and I think...
G: Were you paid...?
P: Yes, ma’am. Uh-huh. I think it was a dollar and a half an hour.
G: Big money.
P: It was, it was okay. That was good, yeah. That was the first paying job on stage. And you worked for a dollar and a half to two, then three, then four and on. But it took a long time getting it. But that was good money. That was nothing...a dollar fifty an hour was excellent money.
G: Yeah, I remember when I first started working, the minimum wage was seventy-five cents an hour. That was sometime in the mid-‘50s, so you were earning double the minimum wage.
P: Yeah, that is true. Uh-huh.
G: ...[inaudible].
P: And then he would come get me on other things. He come Kenny Parnell 22
P: got me for a ballet. And once you’re into that you just want to keep on going.
G: What was your first job? What did you do that first day when your dad pulled you from school?
P: Oh, I would just do whatever they asked me to do -whatever they needed something to do. Mostly I would go up to the grid, the one that’s ninety feet up, ‘cause I was little and I wasn’t scared of heights, and I went up there.
G: And what do you do up there, ninety feet above the stage?
P: Well, you tie off...
G: It’s scary.
P: Everything...no, it’s not. You’re up there, there’s no way you’re going to fall. You’re just walking around. And you can see through the floor, that’s why they call it a grid. And you tie off a lot of stuff up there. You’re usually up there all day, you’re tying what we call black legs to hang in the wings - to hide everything so people can’t see people walking around back there.
G: Black legs are those curtains that...?
P: Yes.
G: Kind of hang on the side.
P? Uh-huh. They’re usually eight feet wide and probably about sixty feet long. And you’d let in the ropes. And then you’d bring them up. And there would be six on each side of the stage and that would take pretty much all day. Kenny Parnell 23
G: During the show did somebody...[inaudible]?
P: No ma’am. Unh-huh.
G: That’s all stuff that’s done before the show?
P: Yes, that’s all. No, no one goes up there during the show. And there is usually one or two on the flyfloor during the show to move some sceneries in and out and close the curtain.
G: Now, moving the scenery and closing the curtain, is that done with counterweights and sandbags and things like that?
P: No more sandbags, but yes, counterweights, uh-huh. Sandbags we haven’t had in the auditorium since 1975, when it burnt. When we re-built it in ’85 we went to counterweights. So there is no more sandbags. But the main curtain was always counterweights, the rest of the scenery was sandbags.
G: Are there any women in the projectionist union?
P: Well, the projectionists’ union isn’t anymore. And we never did have a woman in there as one. But yes, there’s about twenty of them in the stagehands. And they’re good workers.
G: I was wondering if this was a job that required, like, strength or...?
P: It does. On some of it does. And they are strong.
G: Is this a job where agility is important, or...?
P: Yes - especially on the flyman. When you have to Kenny Parnell 24
P: change out the counterweights, it’s really hard. I mean each counterweight weighs twenty-five pounds and you have to put a bunch of them. All day long you’re lifting them and putting them – it’s hard.
G: Is this dangerous work?
P: No, I don’t think so.
G: Things can fall or...?
P: It could, yeah.
G: People could fall?
P: But no one ever has.
G: You have a good safety record as a profession?
P: Sure. Once in a while someone gets hurt, but not bad.
G: Okay. Now you started and you were working with your dad at the Zaragosa and you went on to Nacional, you did some stagehand work. When did you join the union?
P: When I was nineteen.
G: Did you join both unions?
P: I joined a mixed local - it wasn’t here in town. And I joined that in 1956. And then right away I went to work and my first job was at the South Loop Drive-In Theater.
G: And what did you do there?
P: I was a projectionist.
G: A projectionist in a drive-in theater. Is that a different kind of...is that real different from the projectionist in a building theater?
P: No, it’s...the building is cooler and it paid better Kenny Parnell 25
P: money in the building, but they’re all pretty much the same. If you can do it at one place you can do it at another.
G: Well, you’re a projectionist, I’ve always kind of wondered. Does a projectionist actually watch the movie?
P: No ma’am. Unh-huh. You can but it’s...you have...when a movie come in, when I started, you had twenty minute reels, and every twenty minutes you had to change from one machine to the other. And if you get interested in it you forget. And then the people have to do without until you scramble and get it done. So it’s not a good idea to watch anything. And it’s the same on stage.
G: Do projectionists go to movies on their day off?
P: If you want to see a movie, yeah. I would go watch them. But not when you work; it’s not good. You look at the screen, you pay attention, but you don’t get involved, you just see that there’s a good clear picture on the screen.
G: You want to make sure it’s focused and the sound is right.
P: Yes, and the light is light – everything - and that’s what you do. You don’t get involved any which way because it’s...you mess up, and you do. You really do.
G: Is there something that you have a story about? Something happening to you?
P: Not as a projectionist, no, but on stage, yes.Kenny Parnell 26
G: Would you like to tell me...?
P: Sure. The first ice show that I ever worked, I was nineteen and...
G: And it was where?
P: It was at the Coliseum and I was...
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 1.
SIDE 2.
G: Okay. This is Laurie Gudzikowski, and I’m talking to Kenny Parnell about his years working in the theater and his family’s experiences working in the theater, and this is side 2. And Kenny, you were talking, you were starting to tell a story about working in an ice show and how you got distracted. Can you kind of start from the beginning again so we’ll have it all on one side of the tape?
P: Sure. I was running a spotlight at the Coliseum - my first ice show that I ever worked. And it is really critical. You have earphones on, and you have a number. You do exactly what they tell you. You follow the skaters; each person has a different skater.
G: You have earphones on and somebody is talking to you...
P: Yes, we have a cue-master.
G: ...[inaudible].
P: Uh-huh. He’s on the ice and that’s all he does.
G: And he’s telling you where...who to follow?
P: Yes, and he travels with the show. And so we were all going and we were all doing fine and then all of a sudden Kenny Parnell 27
P: everybody was down at the end of the ice and all of the spotlights were on and there was one spotlight, by itself, at the other end of the ice, on nobody. And that was me, because I was watching the show. And he really let me have it. I have never been bawled out so much or cussed out, threatened to be fired and everything else. So I watched the show. I didn’t watch the show anymore, I just did what I was told. And never watched the show. And after that show that day, he really got on me strong, and then after – it ran a week – then after that I was the only one that he bought me a bottle of whiskey ‘cause I did good the rest of the week and he apologized. He said, “But you know what? You’ll never watch another ice show will you?” And I said, “No, sir,” and I never have since. I don’t get involved in anything. You’re just there and you do what you do. You don’t watch anything, except what you’re supposed to watch, because it is so easy to mess up. And the house was full, everybody saw my spotlight down there by itself. And it was a good lesson and he knew it would be. And since then I’ve never watched a show.
G: That’s really interesting.
P: You don’t...you’re there, you’re looking at it and you listen for your number and you don’t hear anybody else’s number. You just hear your number and you can tune everything out and just hear yours. And it’s very easy. But don’t get involved. Kenny Parnell 28
G: So, you’ve worked for...a huge variety of things that you’ve seen from a whole different perspective – the audience, the participants...
P: It is, it is really...it is fun. You see it entirely different than anyone sees it.
G: When you were doing the ice show, did you have a day off where you could go and see it or...?
P: No, they had performances and you worked every performance.
G: And do they still...there are ice shows that come to town, do they still hire local folks or do they carry their folks along with them?
P: Yes ma’am. No, they still hire us. I haven’t worked an ice show since, I don’t know, probably in the ‘80s - the early ‘80s.
G: Does doing this...does doing this get boring? Do you look for new challenges like, [Okay, I don’t know why it clicked off - shouldn’t...]. I was asking a question – does doing this get boring? Do you look for new challenges? I’ve done ice shows, now I’m going to do rodeo or something. P: We did them all: rodeos, ice shows, whatever come into town with the stagehands, we’re doing. It doesn’t get boring. I mean, you work the rodeo every year, you work the ice show every year, you work the circus every year, you work the coronation every year. But it’s...and you work all the stage shows when they come in. And when they make Kenny Parnell 29
P: movies you work the movies when they come in.
G: Tell me about the movies. Okay. What is your job when they – they’ve had a fair amount of movies filmed here - what is your job?
[BREAK IN TAPE]
G: Yeah, I think that’s the problem. I think the problem we are having had to do with low batteries. So, I hope that we had...we were picking up good volume before.
P: Okay.
G: Let’s see, we were talking about the various kinds of shows.
P: Yeah, when the trade shows come into town - the doctor’s conventions, any kinds of conventions - the stagehands works all of those.
G: At a convention? What do you do at a convention?
P: We build all of their booths and we show their slides and stuff for them, whatever they need. We’re there for that. I mean that’s a good living in its own.
G: So that’s a way that your trade has changed. I don’t imagine that was a huge part of your trade in the ‘40s, but I’m guessing that it would be now.
P: It wasn’t. It started in the ‘50s, yeah. We would work with the decorators. We’d decorate for them and we’d build their booths. We’d do it all for them. And we still do that. Anything that comes up that had to do with stage, we...just the group would go work and do it. We hung all ofKenny Parnell 30
P: the screens in all of the theaters in town, and all of that stuff. Change out the screens. Whatever needed to be done in the theaters, we were the ones to do it.
G: Of all of the various jobs that you’ve worked, what’s the most interesting job that you’ve had?
P: Oh, gosh. I like stage and I like this place here, too, very much. But I like working on stage, any kind of stage.
G: Tell me about your job here at the Institute. When did you first come to the Institute of Texan Cultures?
P: In 1968 for HemisFair. Probably we opened in April. I probably started in January.
G: And was this just...was this something that you got through the union, was this something you were looking for, was this...?
P: No, it was through the union and I did come over and work this and we worked every day. We never had a day off here. We worked seven days a week, six hours a day. Just us here in the building did that. And then when we would get off, people would go to different jobs. I would always go on stage. When I’d get off here I’d go over and work at Lila, on stage, or wherever – the Arena on stage, because we all had two jobs then.
G: Okay. And you say you’d go work at Lila - you were talking about?
P: Lila Cockrell Theater. The Theater For The Performing Kenny Parnell 31
P: Arts.
G: Okay. What...tell me what’s different about working here at the Institute from working other jobs?
P: Well, as a projectionist, we do have thirty-eight projectors all running at one time. And that is an art in itself, just to keep this stuff going. It’s now thirty-three years old. It was state-of-the-art at the time, but now we have to...like when we get old we use crutches, we’re crutching that through and hoping to change it. But that is interesting and we’re going to video. Now we show video in there and that is interesting, too. But there is not another place that shows sixteen and thirty-five millimeter slides and thirty-five millimeter film all at one time. We’re the only place, in the entire world, as far as I know. G: And this is completely non-automated, is that correct?
P: It is not automated at all, no ma’am.
G: That means you do a fair amount of running around and scrambling around?
P: We go to every...
G: Up and down stairs and...
P: Yes. We go to every projector during every show that lasts twelve and a half minutes. Uh-huh. And we have to start it and we have to cut it off. We have to be there physically to start it and cut it off.
G: And presently there are three people who do this...
P: Yes. Uh-huh.Kenny Parnell 32
G: ...job, various times. And you also work a lot of evenings?
P: Yes. And we show them for parties at night and stuff.
G: Now you still also do some work on stage?
P: I still do the coronation, yeah.
G: Is that the only...?
P: Right now, yeah. Once in a while they’ll call and say there’s something going on and do you want to work, and I will go work. But we also did all of the rock shows – or the concerts, whatever you want to call them – in San Antonio. I’ve probably worked two hundred of them.
G: Tell me a little bit about working on rock shows and concerts. How was that different from other jobs?
P: Well, that was more physical than anything else. They would bring in big trucks and you would build it. I think when you start, the normal rock show, you work about twenty-four hours – straight. You work twenty-four hours straight, and that’s in and out – in the show and out - and then you go home. And some trucks...I mean some shows would bring in thirteen eighteen-wheelers. You’d have to unload them all, put it all together, and then have your show and then tear it all down and then you’d go home.
G: Now they travel with...who do they travel with? The managers? I mean clearly somebody travels with ...[inaudible].
P: Oh, they have their stagehands that travel. Whenever Kenny Parnell 33
P: they’re here and they ask, “You want to go along?” And some of our guys go. I never would consider it. It’s a hard life, but I enjoyed working them. Like I say, you’d go to work early in the morning, maybe six in the morning, and you worked until six the next morning. If it’s a big show you go in at six and work until eight or nine the next morning.
G: Now over the years, in your various jobs in theaters and movie making and stage shows of various kinds, you’ve had the opportunity to meet many famous people. Do you collect autographs, anything like that? Or is that something that stagehands do?
P: It all depends on who it is. I have a few. I have a Jack Lemmon and a Mitzi Gaynor and Dean Martin. And I don’t really remember how many I do have. But I have...and some pictures with them.
G: Is this something that stagehands commonly do –
collect autographs and memorabilia from famous people?
P: Uh...
G: Or is this something like, well, they’re just another job.
P: It’s probably just another job, unless you really like them and get along with them. Then it becomes something else. And a lot of them are really nice and friendly and easy to get along with. Some are not very friendly and terrible to get along with. Kenny Parnell 34
G: And do you have any stories about famous people that you have worked with that you would like to document?
P: I don’t know about that. Most of them are pretty good. And I have one but I don’t know if you want to...
G: Sure. Let’s hear that story.
P: ...say it or not. I do. This was in the ‘90s, I think, the early ‘90s. I worked with Mitzi Gaynor. And her leading man was on the gay side.
G: And this was in a stage show?
P: Yeah, it was in a stage show.
G: What was the show? Do you remember?
P: “Anything Goes.”
G: Yeah.
P: And it was at the Majestic, and I was a carpenter. And I was standing there with her leading man and another stagehand, and as it was opening, then she come out and she really goosed him really good. And she could see that I was kind of surprised at it. And then when he went on out and was singing, it was a musical, she said, “He doesn’t like that,” she says; “I really like to irritate him.” And her husband was on tour with him. But she did this every show, the beginning of every show - she’d get him every time. And I think there were ten shows. But her husband was a Los Angels Rams fan and I did hook cable TV up so he could watch it there at the Majestic on Sunday afternoon. But I liked Mitzi; she was really nice. A lot of them were really nice.Kenny Parnell 35
P: And I guess she was one of the closest I got to - although Jack Lemmon was nice.
G: I’m thinking that one of the things you liked about her was her sense of humor?
P: Oh, yeah. She was great. Probably the greatest moment, and nobody will even know who I’m talking about. For coronation we had Mary Martin. Do you know Mary Martin? Okay, she come down and was going to perform, and her son was supposed to show up to escort her on stage.
G: And her son is?
P: What is his name? You know him – J.R. What is his name? I’ll think of his name in a minute. He had a drinking problem.
G: It’s the actor who played J.R. on...
P: Yeah, J.R Ewing on...yeah, I’ll think of his name here in a minute. He didn’t show up. So she come up to me and she said, “Would you escort me out on stage?” And I said, “You betcha.” So I escorted her out on stage. And that was a good moment for me.
G: What were you wearing when you escorted Mary Martin on stage?
P: I had my suit on. Well, I was working the coronation, and I always wear a suit when I worked the coronation during performance.
G: Do you have a photograph of that?
P: No, I don’t think so. Unh-uh. This was just on the P:Kenny Parnell 36
spot there. She said, “Well, would you...? Larry Hagman is his name. I knew I’d catch it sooner or later. But he didn’t show up. And it was...I was thrilled that she asked me because she was a famous lady, where no one even knows who she is now. But she was famous. And I enjoyed her very much.
G: Of all of the various things you can remember, can you say something about someone – you don’t have to say a name – someone you were working with with a very bad experience who was demanding or ugly or something?
P: Uh, you mean of the actors?
G: Yeah.
P: Yeah, I can. One was really terrible, terrible, terrible, and that was Steve McQueen. He was bad news.
G: Because...?
P: Ugly, rude, demanding, bossy. When we filmed the movie “The Getaway” here, he was really bad news. You wanted to stay away...I mean after one encounter you just stay away. But he was probably the worst. And he was bad.
G: Now when you work on a movie, what do you do? Move scenery and stuff?
P: Whatever. It depends – there are so many different jobs on location. On two of the movies I got to be what they call the cableman. The first time the business agent sent me I said, “You’re going to kill me with that cable.” Because cable is usually an inch around and it’s heavy. ButKenny Parnell 37
P: it turned out the cableman just carried an extension cord and made sure the camera didn’t run over it, so I liked that job. That was a very easy job. We did all kinds of jobs: we were electricians, we were carpenters, we did food services, we served food, I mean we did that too. It all depends on what you’d get involved in.
G: Now there’ve been quite a few movies filmed here in San Antonio. What movies in particular were you involved with that are memorable to you?
P: Oh, I liked “Honeysuckle Rose” - that was with Willie Nelson; that was good. “The Big Brawl” was good with Jackie Chan. Oh, gosh, I did get...I come home on leave from the Army in ’59, and I worked...I went and worked three days on “The Alamo” while I was on leave. And...but I didn’t get to know much on that. I don’t know. There are so many movies and they’re all about the same. They’re enjoyable.
G: Now movie camera-persons are a separate kind of thing from running a projection...?
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: Completely different.
P: There is only two camera locals in the United States. All cameramen come with the movie. We don’t do any of that whatsoever. I mean I may hold the cord that the dolly don’t run over, but we never touch the camera. Those are special, special people.
G: And lighting and things like that, do they bring in Kenny Parnell 38
G: their people for that or...?
P: They have some of theirs and most of them is ours. They just...their one lighting man will tell us what to do and we do it. But we’re always there. And they bring in their own crew but they hire a lot of us. Also at night when you’re working a movie – I did a lot of the rushes – and they’re called dailies – that for the past three or four days they’ve sent their film back to California and then it comes in, daily, that’s why they called them the dailies and then you show them at night.
G: I’ve noticed that as we’ve gone along, you’ve used a lot of professional terms that I didn’t know. Are there other kinds of stagehand terms that you could think of that you could define for me?
P: Oh, I don’t know. It just comes when it comes. I can tell you what most people don’t know – the difference between upstage and downstage.
G: Tell me the difference between upstage and downstage. I know it’s bad to upstage somebody.
P: Okay.
G: But I’m not sure what that means.
P: How that...the stage is flat, but how it become in the early, early years and I don’t know, the stage was a rake... G: Meaning that it was...?
P: The audience was flat and the stage was a rake. Now the audience sits on a rake and the stage is flat. So the Kenny Parnell 39
stage in back was high, so that’s how they kind of – upstage and downstage was closest to the audience. So if you’d upstaged somebody that means you’re higher than them.
G: Okay.
P: But that’s where the rake come in. It wasn’t a bad rake but it was a rake so the audience could see the entire stage.
G: And when you say early days of theater, what are we talking about?
P: Probably in the ‘30s, ‘cause it’s always been flat as long as I’ve been around.
G: Okay.
P: And I would imagine the ‘20s and the ‘30s is where the upstage and downstage got started. But most people don’t know that’s where it come from. But that’s where it did.
G: Upstage is the back and downstage is the front.
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: And stage left and stage right – we’re talking about as you look at the stage?
P: As you face the audience.
G: So you’re talking about from the actor’s point of view or the stagehands point of view.
P: You’re on the stage. Yeah. Because we’re always working on the stage so it’s always as you are facing the audience. Stage left is to the left and stage right to the right. If you’re in the audience you call it audience stageKenny Parnell 40
P: or house right and house left. And that’s opposite.
G: I’ve heard a lot about how much the Auditorium, the Municipal Auditorium, means to the people of San Antonio. Now, I know you’ve worked a lot of different things there and you have had a lot of personal involvement. Could you talk a little bit about the Municipal Auditorium and its place in San Antonio’s cultural life?
P: Oh, gosh. I really didn’t start going into the Auditorium until probably 1950. But I do know as a kid during the war, I think, or maybe even before, they had a riot over there because there was a communist meeting in there and they tore it up pretty bad. And I don’t remember that. My mother told me about it. But we had a scrap drive that we piled right out in front of the Auditorium.
G: Think we have some pictures of that.
P: Yeah, and I have some stuff in there too. So...but not much other than working there. And it means a lot...we did do a lot of operas – we haven’t had an opera in this – we had regular operas and we quit those in ’83. And we worked a lot of the operas, and I’m sorry they’re gone, but the operas were good too for us. And stagehands worked all of those operas.
G: Going...to get back to the Municipal Auditorium.
P: Okay.
G: The Municipal Auditorium burned...
P: It burned in ’75.Kenny Parnell 41
G: Burned in ’75.
P: Yes.
G: And that...
P: ...By a discarded cigarette into a can of oily rags, right beneath the stage.
G: And the whole...pretty much the interior of the building was gutted.
P: Yes it was, uh-huh.
G: And that was about the time I moved to San Antonio and I remember there was a lot of controversy – should we knock it down and build a new one? Should we re-build it?
P: Yes, it was. And it took ten years. We didn’t re-open it until ’85.
G: And the decision was eventually made to re-build.
P: Yes, uh-huh.
G: And when they re-built it, does it...is it identical? Is it a restoration identical...
P: No. No, it’s...
G: Or is it different?
P: All in the basement is entirely different. But most of it in the audience is the same.
G: So from a stagehand’s point of view it’s a completely different building?
P: The stage is, yes. The stage went from the hemp-house – which is rope. We had all ropes and sandbags, now we have cable and counterweights. As far as the pipes that we raiseKenny Parnell 42
P: the scenery on...
G: How has technology changed your jobs? Are you...do you do things more computer generated or...
P: It’s going that way now. All of our lighting is going to computers. But the carpenters are still the same. We still build; we still paint. But the technology on the lighting, it’s run by computers now, yes, ma’am. The spotlights - we’ve gone from the carbon arc in the early years to now a Zeon bulb, but we still manually run the spotlights out in the house.
G: Explain to me what carbon arc is.
P: A carbon arc is two pieces of carbon. It’s like an arc welder. They go together...
G: Pieces of carbon with a space in between?
P: Yes.
G: And you run electricity.
P: Electricity through there. It’s DC electricity.
G: And there’s a spark that runs between.
P: Yes. And it gets...it’s the brightest light that man has ever made. But that’s the carbon arc; the carbons only last for an hour and then you have to re-trim. And the fumes are not good for you. So they’ve done away from that, and gone to what they call a Zeon bulb. It’s bright, and it’s steady and it lasts for lots of hours, maybe fifteen hundred hours, where you could only run an hour on a carbon. You could sit there all day with your Zeon.Kenny Parnell 43
G: I notice that the very few times I’ve gone to concerts they come in with these big old giant things like video screens.
P: Uh-huh.
G: That’s something that a stagehand deals with?
P: Yes, ma’am. Like I say, when they come in, we do it all. They have their crew with them but if there’s a projector needs running, the stagehand will run it or a projectionist. And all of the stuff is built by us stagehands. And we’re there from the very beginning to the very end.
G: Now movie theaters today are multiplexes where they have a zillion auditoriums. Are they run out of kind of one central projecting...[inaudible].
P: Most of them now...I haven’t been in one since...I quit doing that in ’87, I think. And the biggest I ever worked were twelve screens. And there’s one person doing this. But there’s no change-overs and you can’t really do a good job because you have to look at all twelve screens.
G: So you start one and then you start the next one.
P: Sure.
G: And one person just moves from projection to projection to projection?
P: Yes, uh-huh. And I think when they started, when the union left that – we don’t have the union doing that anymore in this town – that I think they might have two or three up Kenny Parnell 44
P: there at a time now. But where we used to run one theater you could dedicate all your time to that. But...and I can probably handle four theaters really good, but when you get over four I can’t do my job. I can’t do justice. I cannot run six screens.
G: And they have people running sixteen. Yeah. I mean I can do it. I can physically do it but can’t keep a good look on the screen - you don’t know, you can’t look at sixteen screens and see if they’re in focus.
G: Who runs...are the people who are running these various theaters – are they young people who are going to move into the profession or are they... What kind...
P: I think they are young ushers who just go in and do it and then go on back to school. I don’t think there’s a profession there anymore at all, because it doesn’t pay. It doesn’t pay like when we were in there. When they replaced us they could hire four of the ushers to do it for the price of one projectionist.
G: So the changes have largely been economic?
P: I would think so, yes. But you still can’t do justice to your job. I mean I cannot look at sixteen screens... movies that are in...they have to be far apart. You have to really walk. I can handle four without a problem, but after four it goes away, you can’t do it.
G: Now the camera – not cameras – projectors are more automated, the rolls of film are bigger? How...Kenny Parnell 45
P: Well, the rolls still are twenty minutes, the reels. And when they come in you put them...you splice them all together and they’re laid flat on a platter and they’ll run the entire length of the movie. But we still don’t have anything that’s automated to thread them up. Or we don’t have an endless thirty-five. You must be there at the beginning of the show and at the end of the show to re-thread it up.
G: And so that’s why the start-times are...
P: Staggered.
G: What, ten minuets apart on each of these things?
P: Uh-huh.
G: Now the...when they splice them all together do they...? I assume that they splice in the coming attractions and stuff that’s all...
P: Yes. We do all of that. Each reel comes with what they call a head and a foot on it. And it’s marked – this is reel five, beginning of reel five. You cut that off and then when the show...when you ship it out you put it back on.
G: People who make the movies and the people who show the movies are both making money out of this.
P: Yes, ma’am.
G: I assume it’s a royalties system in some way.
P: Uh-huh.
G: How does the person who made the movies keep track of Kenny Parnell 46
G: the number of people who saw the movies? Do they have to trust the guy that runs the theater?
P: Yes. And when...and they will send...they have what they call checkers, the people that own the movies, and they’ll send them by to check; they have counters. And they’ll check on you. Some won’t count; they’ll come buy the first ticket and they’ll buy the last, so they’ll know. And people complain a lot about the high price of popcorn and soda and the candy bars, but people who own the theaters - when a good film comes out - they have to give the film company ninety-five percent of the take. So for five percent you can’t operate a theater, you need to sell popcorn and candy. And I think that’s kind of not a good deal, but the film company gets all the money the theater does not.
G: Theaters – the economics of theaters, I guess, are such that some very large chains, national chains, I believe...
P: Uh-huh.
G: ...own most of the theaters. Certainly in San Antonio most of the theaters are owned by one chain.
P: And that’s Regal now. And it is a very big chain.
G: And it’s a national, or at least regional kind of a chain?
P: I think it’s pretty well national. When I came in and started, Inter-State owned all the theaters. And then they were forced to sell out. The government made them sell out.Kenny Parnell 47
P: And then Santikos ended up with a lot of them. But he’s completely out of the picture now too.
G: When you...do you ever go to the movies these days?
P: Once in a while, yes, ma’am.
G: Can you look at the movie and say, not being run properly? Or does that bother you that...
P: Yes ma’am. It does bother me; yes, it does. On several occasions I had to get up and leave and tell them to change the lens because they had the wrong lens in there and that’s not very professional.
END OF TAPE 1, SIDE 2.THE INSTITUTE OF TEXAN CULTURES
Oral History Office
SUBJECT: Theaters in San Antonio
INTERVIEW WITH: Kenny Parnell (Tape 2 of 2)
DATE: 18 July 2000
PLACE: ITC
INTERVIEWER: Laurie Gudzikowski
TAPE 2, SIDE 1
G: ...and I am talking to Kenny Parnell about his experiences working in theaters in San Antonio. And today is Jun 18th, 2000, and this is tape 2 of our interview. Okay, Kenny, we were talking about changes in theaters. How they’ve gone from stand-alone theaters to multiplexes and the whole...the whole economics of movie theaters has changed a hundred percent, I think, over the last fifty years. When I was a child I used to go to the theater on weekday afternoons, and pay ten cents to go to the movies. Now you go to the movies and it’s five dollars, whether it’s ...five dollars to go to a movie it’s...
P: Yeah, it is.
G: It’s a big change in the economics of the theater. From what you said, in the days when I went to the theater and paid a dime there was a staff of – even at a neighborhood theater – probably five or ten people in the theater at the time.
P: Uh-huh.
G: In the big...in the big complex – theater complexes - I Kenny Parnell 2
G: don’t think maybe there’s five people in the whole building that has twenty theaters sometimes. Was the economics of the theater different in the old days? Did the person who owned the theater get more of a return from the film? Did you show a film longer? I mean what was...what made this big difference?
P: That I don’t really know about - the returns on that. But the main theaters, we showed – the Majestic always had it a week. And then if it was really good they’d hold it over a week. And then sometimes they would hold it over to the State, or hold it over to another theater and go... And I don’t know that the percentage has always been that high, but when I did quit the percentage to the movie, to the film, was awful high. I mean, naturally if you showed them now for six weeks it would go down from ninety-five percent maybe down as low as seventy-five, but never below that. And I have showed one movie for a year and a week.
G: What movie was that?
P: E.T. I’ve shown that one for a whole year at the South Park Theater.
G: Amazing.
P: Yeah. We had that one film there for a whole year. And during that year I had to get three new prints in, because we’d wear them out.
G: Was that the longest?
P: That I’ve ever run, yes.Kenny Parnell 3
G: That you ever run a single movie?
P: Uh-huh. I think the one in North Star Mall, they had The Sound of Music for maybe two or three years.
G: Interesting.
P: But I think they would show only once or twice a day. Where I showed E.T. probably five times a day.
G: Even not looking at the movie, I bet you got to know E.T. quite well.
P: Well, you would walk by and you’d catch a few things, but like I say, don’t ever get interested because then you’ll forget you’re supposed to be at another theater over there and then that would...you’ll miss out on that. But as far as watching the movies, I would go to a movie. And I do go to a movie. Because also when you’re working, if your phone rings, you have to answer it and then you’ve missed the movie...so. I never have watched a movie as I was working.
G: Uh-huh.
P: ...and for good reasons – so.
G: I think that’s interesting. What about other people who work in the theaters – the stagehands – if you’re running the spotlight, clearly you’re not watching the show; you’re listening for your cues. What about other people who work there? Are you also paying attention to your job and not to what’s happening?
P: Well, those are the only two that I’m involved. I P:Kenny Parnell 4
think ushers and other people sometimes will sit down and watch a show. I mean, where we would watch shows is, we did a lot of screening of new movies coming out, and...
G: So you would watch...
P: We would show that early in the morning.
G: Before you got the movie.
P: And then sometimes whoever the manager was would require everybody to watch it so they could give their opinion, because we’d get it maybe two months before it was released and then they would go bidding on it. And we did that a lot at the Aztec.
G: When you say bidding on it, that means trying to get the film for your theater or...?
P: Yes, uh-huh. Like when Rocky come out. I screened it with my boss, who was Herman Solik. And all of Santikos... all of Santikos people were there; everybody was there. Nobody wanted it. Nobody wanted it. But my boss wanted it. The owner of the Aztec did not want it. But my boss was the manager of that and he said, “We’re going to take it.” Nobody else wanted it. And we got it. He asked me and I said, “Gee, Herman, I didn’t like it.” But we got it, and we made a fortune. And then, naturally, Santikos and everybody’s crying for us to share it. But we had it exclusive. We had it so exclusive that we moved it to the Laurel, too, because the Laurel belonged to Maurice Braha at the time. But that was one where screening paid off for us,Kenny Parnell 5
P: where nobody else wanted it. Naturally when Rocky II come out, everybody wanted it. We didn’t get it, but we had Rocky I. And so everybody is at these screenings, even Polunsky, he was always there. Every owner and manager of the theaters would come watch and some he would say, “Let’s all watch it.” So I would watch them too. Because I didn’t have other theaters to run except that.
G: Now when you’re showing a film, how do you know when you’re getting...when it’s getting to the end? Do you have to watch the reel? Is there an alarm that goes off? I mean, how do you know?
P: When we did the twenty-minute reels, we had alarms - it was a bell that would ring as...depending on how fast your reel would go. Or we had drop alarms when it would get to a certain...it would drop and then you’d get up and change and you had to do that every twenty minutes. And you probably had around forty-five seconds to get up and light your lamp and wait for your first cue – there’s a motor cue – you see it on the screen, and then the second cue is the change-over cue which you switch-over, which is eleven feet apart.
G: Now, one time you said to me something about showing pictures of popcorn interspersed with the film.
P: Well, yes. You could do that. You would take...
G: Is this something that was done...?
P: Yes, it was.
G: ...during what time?Kenny Parnell 6
P: Mostly in the ‘40s and ‘50s, and I think just once in the ‘70s, I was asked to put that in there. But it’s against the law. You would put one frame of a piece of popcorn in there – you won’t see it but your mind will see it - and you’ll see the people in the audience get up and go. And they don’t know that they saw a piece of popcorn on the screen.
G: Now was this something that the theater owners figured out?
P: I don’t know who figured it out, but I know that the law enforcement figured it out, too, and said, that’s illegal, we can’t do that.
G: But during the ‘40s and ‘50s it wasn’t and people commonly did that?
P: Yeah, they did it all the time, yes, ma’am, until they got...someone caught up with it and...
G: And was this something that when you got a movie you made these little cuts and put them in and then when...
P: Yes, uh-huh.
G: And before it went back, you’d take them out?
P: Yes, ma’am. It was just one frame. It takes four frames to move your finger, so if you put one frame in there, it’ll be there but it will be so fast and it’ll put it in your mind – popcorn. And you will get up... And it suggests. And another way they did it, in the popcorn rooms they would have exhaust fans blowing the smell into the Kenny Parnell 7
P: theater. And then they would heavily salt the popcorn. And naturally you’d have to keep coming back for drinks. And they made them stop all of that. I don’t think they ever made them stop blowing the fumes, but the film, they made them take that out. And I’ve done it maybe twice in my life where I’d put the popcorn in there. And it’s neat, and it is kind of dirty, but I mean that’s what they did. And I’d do what my boss tells me to do.
G: And you could actually see the large number of audiences go and get...?
P: If you’re watching the audience and you...you have to know when it’s going through because it’s very difficult to see. Maybe if you’re looking for it you’ll see it, but you will see them get up and go get the popcorn.
G: I think that’s fascinating.
P: I think it is, too.
G: I’m running out of questions to ask. Are there any... anything that you can think of that I’ve missed, that you would like to talk about in your theater career?
P: I will tell you once on stage at the Majestic, this was very enjoyable...but it was very bad, but it was very funny. During Evita – did you go see Evita at the Majestic? – well, I was standing out there talking to the lead...leading lady, and naturally she’s very low-cut, she’s really hanging out. And one of the other stagehands walks up and he’s...raises his glasses up and he looks at her and he says, “You are Kenny Parnell 8
P: really well endowed.” And normally this is okay, but she started screaming and crying and she run down and locked herself in the dressing room during intermission. We were just ready to open the curtain when he told her that, and she didn’t come back for about thirty minutes. But I think the reason she did that, she was upset about something else because this is...they walk around without any clothes on or anything all the time. It’s normal. It’s just accepted. And he got fired and he got fined, but I thought it was kind of neat. But the Majestic didn’t, because we were thirty minutes late at intermission. And you can imagine being there during Evita – Evita was a big show. But I think she had something wrong before she was irritated, and this was just an excuse to get out. But then when she come back up she seemed all right. I enjoyed that kind of stuff. And they do walk around without any clothes, so there shouldn’t be...she shouldn’t have been that way, I don’t think. But it cost him his job, for that show only. The next show that come into the Majestic, he couldn’t come back and finish the tour there; he had to leave.
G: You said something way back about, for a while when you used seventy millimeter film and I...what is seventy millimeter film and when did you use it?
P: This was in the ‘50s when seventy millimeter come out; it was at the Broadway Theater. It’s twice as big as the thirty-five millimeter. Kenny Parnell 9
G: And this was Cinerama or...?
P: Well, it was what they called Todd-EO. It was developed by Elizabeth Taylor’s husband, Michael Todd. And it was really heavy film and fast film. It run almost twice as fast as the thirty-five runs through there. And we did have two projectionists on a shift at the time during the seventy millimeter. And that was only at the Broadway, though; we only had it at the Broadway. And the real Todd-Eos, I think there was only three movies, and that was: - I can’t remember what they are – Around the World in Eighty Days was one. Oklahoma was another. And then they started going down and made a different seventy millimeter that run the normal speed. So we didn’t need the two operators anymore.
G: And film nowadays is mostly...?
P: It runs ninety feet a minute.
G: And it’s what?
P: It’s thirty-five millimeter.
G: Thirty-five millimeter.
P: Yes. Uh-huh - except the IMAX, and that is a huge film.
G: I was going to ask you about IMAX.
P: I’ve never run an IMAX, so...
G: How big is that film?
P: It’s a size of a seventy millimeter, it’s about like that.
G: I know that it comes in really huge rolls.Kenny Parnell 10
P: Yes. And it lays down, it goes through sideways, where all of our film goes through up and down.
G: There’s a lot of new sound – Dolby and...
P: Yeah.
G: I forgot what the others are, but I know this new sound stuff – is that something that requires special equipment? Is it patched on to the film?
P: When I was in, the sound was always on the film and it mostly still is, but there are some that are coming out now - they are on CDs that go along with the film. And I’ve never run one of those; I’ve never seen one. But they tell me some of the sound is run by – it’s not on the film, it’s on a CD. And like I say, I’ve never seen or heard so I couldn’t even comment on it.
G: Anything else that you’d like to say about changes that you’ve seen in theaters here in San Antonio - either the technology, or the audience, or things that you’ve observed over the years that have changed?
P: Well, the thing that really has changed that I don’t care about – when you’d go to a show at the Majestic it was really...it was really majestic. It was...had a curtain, had good sound, and now I’ve gone in theaters that it ain’t but fifty seats in a theater and you watch the movie. And that’s not watching a movie to me. I want to be comfortable in a big, big theater. I don’t enjoy the little twenty-screen theaters; they’re too small. And I don’t care for P:Kenny Parnell 11
that at all. I don’t know about other people. But sitting in the Majestic and watching the shows with full houses was really good. But now your full house would be fifty people. And I don’t consider that...
G: A different kind of social experience?
P: Yeah. I don’t...I think that’s wrong, but...and I don’t have anything to say about it. But it’s not the same as sitting in a fifty seat theater and a two thousand seat theater.
G: Which was the...what was considered the best theater in San Antonio? Was it the Majestic?
P: Yes, it was the Majestic, yeah.
G: That was the premium first-run theater?
P: That and the Aztec were the two very best. I would still say the Majestic over the Aztec. And I did work at the Aztec for eleven years as a projectionist. And I would still like the Majestic would be better.
G: And that was because of the ambience or the equipment or...? P: The equipment in the projection booth was all the same. We had exactly in the Aztec what they had in the Majestic, so... But the Majestic - just the atmosphere.
G: It was more majestic?
P: Sure, it was really, really on top, although they are going to re-do the Aztec now. And I’m hoping to go look at that to see what it’s like.Kenny Parnell 12
G: The Empire – not the Empire, the Alameda Theater - is being done over; the Majestic has been done over.
P: Uh-huh.
G: The Empire has been.
P: Has been. Yes.
G: So there is a...of course, the uses are somewhat different.
P: Yeah. Well now, the Majestic has gone to – not film but performing. And they have ruint, as far as I’m concerned, historical...they have ruint the Majestic.
G: Because?
P: They took half of the stage of the Empire. They had to tear out a wall and the Empire stage was three feet different in height. They had to build up. And I think that has ruined the Majestic, historically, that you took from another theater to make it bigger. It’s still not the same. It’s entirely different. You can go in there and look and you can see where they took it out. Of course, most people won’t notice that, but I think that ruins it historically. They tore a whole wall out. It was just back-to-back. The stages were back-to-back, the Empire and the Majestic.
G: And the Majestic stage was smaller because...?
P: Well, it was just for vaudeville, it wasn’t for big... big plays. When the big plays would come to town, like Hello, Dolly, we would have that at the Municipal Kenny Parnell 13
P: Auditorium, when all the big ones come. But the Majestic is still awful small. And if you ever go in you can look at the sizes and there’s a lot of difference between the Majestic and the Auditorium. The Majestic was built as a movie house and small vaudeville; the Auditorium was built strictly stage.
G: Was vaudeville still in...existing in any way when you were working theaters, or was it completely gone?
P: It was mostly gone. They tried to bring it back in some of the theaters - in the Joy Theater and Empire Theater, even some at the Majestic. They had a little bit, not a whole lot.
G: Some of the Mexican theaters, I understand, have had stage shows along with the... Was any of that happening when you worked?
P: Oh, yes. I’ve worked on the Alameda stage a whole lot. And I’ve worked on the Nacional stage a little bit.
G: And what kind of shows did they have?
P: It was mostly Mexican shows - the dancing and stuff like that. And like I say, I never really watched...
G: Because you were working.
P: Because you’re paying attention and you can’t enjoy. But it was mostly dancers.
G: Were they shows that came from Mexico, shows that were doing it here in San Antonio?
P: I think most of them at the Alameda come from Mexico. Kenny Parnell 14
P: They had some really big stars there, so... And I think Pedro Armedariz was there. I got to meet him. What’s the little guy – Cantinflas, Mario Moreno, he was there. And there were some famous ones there. We even had one famous here in town – Pedro Gonzales-Gonzales. And I think he’s still around. But he performed on the Nacional stage, with his frying pans.
G: Frying pans?
P: He played frying pans.
G: Okay.
P: With...I mean he made a good sound, but only with frying pans, and his sticks. He made pretty good sounds on it. And I think he’s still around; I’m not sure.
G: Were you ever involved in the sound part or is that a completely different...?
P: Well, like on stage, you might be put in the sound, but I mostly stuck to carpenter and that is building the sets and stuff like that. But I have worked in sound, yes. I don’t care for sound as much as I do the carpenter work.
G: I’m told that there’s special nails and things for putting together stage stuff, is that true?
P: Well, yeah. It’s mostly the same nails, but we have our own stuff. All of it is obsolete now, but we used to screw the stuff to the floor and that is a no-no now. You can’t mess up them wood floors anymore.
G: So when you screwed stuff to the floor didn’t thatKenny Parnell 15
P: leave holes in the...?
P: Yeah, then you’d take a dowel afterwards and hammer it in and that would close it up, and it would be all right. But we haven’t put a nail or a screw in the floor in years.
G: Well, how do you attach them to keep things...?
P: Most of it’s hanging or we put them on weights. The ones that stand up there we put...we’ll take some of the counterweights and put it on there. We still use sandbags for that. We’ll sandbag them so they’ll stand. But most of the time, we secure them by pipes that are from the fly floor.
G: So it’s done quite differently now?
P: Yeah, because usually you’d just shove it out there and pin it together and screw it to the floor and it’d be okay. But we can’t screw into the floor anymore.
G: And that is because of the value...?
P: ...of the floor, yeah, and it does ruin it over a period of years.
G: Are there any theaters in town that have the old floors where you could see the dowels you put in?
P: No, I don’t think so. I think they’ve all been replaced, yes. And I haven’t been on the Empire stage, there might be some in there; I haven’t been on there since they’ve re-done it. I might go look if you like. But most of them are covered up. But I do have some of those pins.
G: I think this has all been very fascinating. Kenny Parnell 16
P: I think it’s fun. It’s always been fun. I’ve always enjoyed my job; I wouldn’t do anything else.
G: Now your son is involved in the theater. How did he get started? Did he start working with you when he was fourteen?
P: No, I took him to some of the rock shows when I was working. And he liked it. So he’s worked a few rock shows, but mostly he’s worked the coronation. I don’t think he’s worked...and he has worked some conventions. I think he worked a gun show and a doctor’s convention.
G: But this isn’t his primary...?
P: No, he works for Ma Bell.
G: So this is something that he does kind of on the side?
P: Uh-huh. But he does do the coronation. He is second to me on the coronation.
G: This is...the coronation has been a real family tradition - your dad was involved in it and now you’re involved in it. What is your position in the coronation?
P: Well, I’m the head stagehand there. I am the carpenter now. And when J.B. had his heart attack in ’92, I’ve kind of taken his place since then. But he has always been there. Because he’s so...he’s got it in his mind and he can always help like that and he remained on the payroll and right along. But I do that now, and after I go away I guess my son will do it – we will keep it in the family. I’ve almost got fifty years with the coronation. And it’s all,Kenny Parnell 17
P: like I say, it’s enjoyable.
G: What else? Anything else?
P: Oh, not that I can think of, right off hand.
G: There’s nothing else; there’s something you’d like to say as a closing remark?
P: No, I don’t think so, but you know we can always re-do if we think about it later.
G: We can add to this. Thank you so much, Kenny. I’ve really enjoyed talking to you.
P: Okay.
G: I’ve learned a whole lot.
P: Well, good.
END OF TAPE 2